Strangetalk

by **Talenos** » Apr 18 2007 11:27:58 pm

I thought I would make a sticky for this topic since most people are either graduated or close to graduated and are thinking more about investing money. I'll try to put all the good stuff in the first post and keep an ongoing discussion in the rest of the thread.

Information Links
http://www.finance.yahoo.com - Best site for pure research on companies stocks and a good source of news. Has pretty well populated message boards. Although remember what goes on in message boards is 95% crap.
http://www.google.com/finance - I prefer Google's site for looking at charts and getting news about a company. They have discussion boards for each stock to talk about them.
http://www.thestreet.com - A lot of good articles and videos, and you can find all of Cramer's recaps there.
http://www.fool.com - I like this site because they frequently give you investing ideas that you can research but other than that it is mostly spam for their services. Their Caps site is quite interesting though, basically lets everyone rank how they think a stock will perform.
http://www.fatwallet.com/c/52/ - Fatwallet Finance forum, has stickied threads with the best current interest rates for money market accounts and CDs, and lots of good discussions on anything financial.
http://www.bankrate.com - A way to help find the best interest rates for checking, savings, CDs, loans and more. If you're always looking for the best rates this is where to go.

Tracking Your Accounts Online
http://moneycenter.yodlee.com - Allows you to group all of your different accounts into one place so you can see balances on all your banks accounts, investment accounts, credit cards, and loans, etc. You can set up budgets and monitor all your transactions as well as see your total net worth.
http://www.mint.com - Doesn't have as many features as yodlee, but it looks a lot prettier. They are adding investment accounts soon, but it is good for seeing a pie chart of your spending and setting up budgets as well.

Articles
How to Place a Stock Order

Should I Invest
Only you can make that decision, but this is sort of a check list to see if you have everything else in line before you start investing.

1. Do you have any debt?
Specifically credit card debt with high interest rates in the teens or twenties. You have to have this paid off before you even consider investing. If you have student loans or a mortgage or other deductible debt then you are still ok, this is generally considered "good debt". Especially if your interest rate is low then you should be good.

2. Do you have any savings? (Short Term Savings)
This is to make sure you don't get into debt, for all those unexpected health, home or auto costs that can hit you out of nowhere. People will tell you various amounts. But generally around 3-6 months of expenses is what you want to shoot for. Remember expenses, not total income for a month. Generally you want to find a liquid savings account with the highest rate you can find.

3. Do you have a retirement plan? (Long Term Savings)
This is obviously very important if you don't want to be working when you're older. How much you need to contribute depends on many factors, but there are calculators online that can give you a good head start.

Do you have access to a retirement plan through your work like a 401(k) or 403(b)? Do they match your contributions? If the answer to both of these is yes then you have to contribute enough to get your full match. That is basically free money and the best return you'll probably ever see, and it's guaranteed!

If not, have no fear, there is another option, the IRA. These are Individual Retirement Accounts and means that you get to pick what to invest in, not just pick from the companies basket of funds that may or may not suck. There are Roth and Traditional varieties, and for younger people the Roth is probably the choice for your, for various reasons, especially if you have higher income.

The usual "ideal" way to save for retirement is.
1. Contribute into 401(k) up until you reach the full matching contribution limit
2. Max out a Roth IRA (2007 limit is 4k, 2008 limit goes to 5k, if you're over 55 add another 1k to those totals)
3. Max out the rest or you 401(k)
4. Invest in a taxable account

4. If you have 1-3, that is no bad debt, a savings plan, and retirement taken care of, then you are probably ready to invest in a taxable account and get into individual stocks if so desired. It is often desirable to have a taxable account since, if you have to go past your savings for some reason you can pull out of this account instead of retirement, which might incur a tax penalty and perhaps throw you off track to retire on your terms.

Now if you have none of these done and this seems like it will take forever to accomplish. Remember that it is just an ideal situation. There is nothing wrong with contributing to all of them at once. That is to say, you can take $200, and put $50 towards debt, $50 towards savings, $50 towards retirement and $50 towards in discretionary investing. You can split it up however you like but it is certainly a valid strategy.

Online Brokers
http://www.sharebuilder.com - I think this is the best place for people to start if they want to start out slowly but try to contribute money every month. You can buy fractional shares which lets you do dollar cost averaging, and you can automatically reinvest dividends.
Buy:
$1-4$ for automatic investments (only occur on Tuesdays)
$9.95 for real time trades
Sell:
$9.95 for real time trades

http://www.scottrade.com - Cheapest of the E-trade, Ameritrade, batch of online brokers. Trades are $7 to buy or sell in real-time. Good for people that already have a decent chunk of money to invest.
Buy/Sell:
$7 for real time trades

http://www.zecco.com - A new online broker that boastst giving you a certain number of free trades a month. Don't know much about it, but looks interesting and I will post more when I hear more about it. Free trades require a minimum balance of $2500. Otherwise they are $4.50.
Buy/Sell:
$0, max of 10 per month, else $4.50

Books
Jim Cramer's Real Money - A good starter for learning what a stocks is, what makes it priced the way it is etc.(Talenos)
Jim Cramer's Mad Money - Sort of an advanced guide if you have read the first one. (Talenos)
Jim Cramer's - Confessions of a Street Addict is also a great read, though it is more entertainment value than real investment advice for a beginning investor. Its about his life and how he got started and then how he made money at his hedge fund and all the stress involved. (Nate)
The Intelligent Investor, Benjamin Graham - A classic text on value-style investing (e.g. Warren Buffet) Kind of textbook like and a bit outdated but the version I have has a modern commentary on each chapter to bring it up to date.(Talenos)

by **Nate** » Apr 19 2007 08:40:03 am

Yahoo and google both have message boards. Yahoo's are much more popular, but tend to have a ton of crappy low quality posts, so I prefer to stick with google.

I applied for a zecco.com account, and they are kinda backwards, they want you to photocopy your drivers license or other ID and either email or mail it to them. I didn't have to do all that stuff when I signed up with share builder.

Jim Cramer's - Confessions of a Street Addict is also a great read, though it is more entertainment value than real investment advice for a beginning investor. Its about his life and how he got started and then how he made money at his hedge fund and all the stress involved.

Thank for the stick Talenos.

by **Nate** » Apr 23 2007 09:19:51 pm

NYX, ouch today unless you were waiting for an opportunity to load up. I really hope they have great earnings or that Goldman was just playing with the stock so they can get in at a better price.

by **Talenos** » Apr 23 2007 10:14:57 pm

I'm probably going to double down after earnings if the reaction is not favorable and it goes into the 70s. Otherwise, I'm not really concerned. A few of mine reported good earnings and were up quite a bit to balance that one out.

by **Nate** » Apr 24 2007 11:01:02 pm

I'd like to double down if it gets that low, but I don't think it will stay there long enough for me to gather up the money. I'll probably throw more at monsanto to get ready for their next quarter. I think this one will be big as well. They no longer have a patent on RoundUp (glyphsate) but I think they still make a lot of it and I heard that there is a shortage and even people who pre-paid for the stuff are having to pay an extra 20%. With lots of ground coming out of conservation programs theres going to be lots of extra ground to be sprayed with herbicide. That will help monsanto's bottom line. Cramer actually thinks they have good 3-5 year potential, as long as corn ethanol stays hot.

by **Nate** » Apr 25 2007 08:53:53 am

The dow crossed 13,000 this morning and stayed above that level for about 20 minutes. It only took a little more than 6 months to add 1,000 points.

by **LucasPukus** » Apr 25 2007 03:50:49 pm

Nate wrote:The dow crossed 13,000 this morning and stayed above that level for about 20 minutes. It only took a little more than 6 months to add 1,000 points.

It's still above 13 now. Closing value: 13089.89.
Wowzer.

by **gonzo** » Apr 25 2007 04:08:48 pm

Nate wrote:The dow crossed 13,000 this morning and stayed above that level for about 20 minutes. It only took a little more than 6 months to add 1,000 points.

and in that time my 401k has lost 10% of its value

by **Halt! Hammerzeit.** » Apr 25 2007 05:02:31 pm

Damn, AMZN skyrocketed today.

by **Nate** » Apr 25 2007 08:52:11 pm

Cramer is predicting 14500 by year end. Last year he was only off by 60 points!

NYX and LVLT both release earnings tomorrow. Hopefully LVLT can cut their debt some and NYX can increase earnings at least a little bit. KRY was up today on basically no news. I wish I had more capital and the balls to day trade on that stock, it has tons of 10% swings.

by **Turbo** » Apr 25 2007 08:56:58 pm

Nate wrote:Cramer is predicting 14500 by year end. Last year he was only off by 60 points!

I'll take the under

by **floor punching mummy** » Apr 26 2007 12:13:40 am

i have a healthy chunk in NYX and LVLT. *Crosses fingers*

by **Talenos** » Apr 26 2007 01:48:56 am

AAPL over 100 now. Decided to add some new positions since all my other ones have just kept going up and I'm nervous about buying more.

by **Nate** » Apr 26 2007 08:57:39 am

Hal and Thestreet.com also reported.

Hal made .54/share vs .42 in first quarter of '06. Revenue was up 17%

TSCM .11 vs .09 last year and revenue was up 30%

LVLT -.44 vs -.20 last year

NYX .43 vs .24 revenue up 54%

by **Nate** » Apr 26 2007 12:16:15 pm

Do any of you guys read Lenny Dykstra's column on thestreet.com? He writes about options trading and his strategy is to buy deep-in-the-monet (DITM) calls and then when he gets in, he sets a good till cancelled order (GTC) for $1 above his purchase price. He buys 10 contracts at a time so when he wins, he makes $1000.

I'm giong to piggy back one of his strategies. I'm only buying one contract as I can't afford to lose several thousand dollars if it falls through. I bought a Oct 27.50 Hal call for 5.60. I've actually set the GTC sell price at 6.90 to cover the commision, which is the same price Dykstra has his set at, and he got in at 5.90.

It would have been cheaper to have gotten in yesterday before earnings, but my money was floating around on the internets somewhere. His article on Wednesdays show how his plays are doing.

http://www.thestreet.com/newsanalysis/i ... 52694.html

by **Loie** » Apr 28 2007 09:38:07 am

http://nysetrader.blogspot.com/ fairly in-depth and consistently updated blog I like to read. The guy is nuts but is making it work.

by **Nate** » May 02 2007 08:53:49 am

The dow has been up 20 of the last 23 sessions. My portfolio, however, has only been up 10 of those sessions.

by **daoist** » May 02 2007 11:07:39 am

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/ ... resources/

Pretty good for beginners.

by **Nate** » May 03 2007 09:25:37 pm

Today was one of the best days for my portfolio and 401k. All my stocks were up except kraft. Paramount gold (PGDP) was up 7%

Martin-Marietta (MLM) stock is up 45% year-to-date

by **Nate** » May 04 2007 09:41:45 am

I just sold my Savient, Altria, and Kraft. I didn't own more than a couple shares of each, and I want to build my position on LVLT some more. When I get paid again, I might double down on NYX if it stays at this level. If it took a short drop to 70, I'd be okay with that.

by **Talenos** » May 05 2007 02:07:02 pm

I will say YHOO has been up and down for me, and even though it hasn't done much of anything great, I always bought some more on the dips and now I know how much that pays off. I think the take over will probably happen, and when it's official I know MSFT should give a nice premium and then I'll probably sell since I already own a lot of MSFT.

by **Talenos** » May 11 2007 12:35:35 am

I've actually been waiting for a day like this. A lot of my stocks have been straight lining and I've been wanting to add more to some.

by **Nate** » May 11 2007 12:57:47 pm

My GTC order on my Hal call went through today. I made $96 in 12 trading days off $577, donno what return that is, but I'll take it. Hal is looking very strong today, I might have been able to get out 10 bucks higher, but oh well.

Edit: I think thats a 14% return and anually it would be 341% Someone should check my math though.

by **Nate** » May 16 2007 10:13:37 pm

Today looked a little better, though I still wouldn't mind NYX getting into the low 70s as much as it would hurt. A guy posted on google finance today about how last year he got some jan 08 calls for .80 and sold them for 19.00 I wish I could do that, though I'm not really sure that actually happened, but it could have, the stock did have a hell of a run back then.

I think if you really belive in this stock, buying some far out calls might not be a bad strategy.

by **Nate** » May 18 2007 07:31:53 pm

I don't know if you've heard of it, but there is a website called Stockpickr. Its run by one of Cramer's apprentices James Altucher. Anyway, on there, they have a questions 'forum' and you can ask questions. I've heard Cramer be really excited about this website and upon checking it out, I've found he'll occasionally answer questions there. So I asked one today and got a response, though I'm not sure how much he answered it or not.

http://www.stockpickr.com/members/view/answers/864/

I've found he usually posts around 4-6pm our time and 6am or so, and I don't think he has a lot of time, so if you want him to answer something its best to post it around then so its towards the top. You'll probably have better luck and get a better answer than calling the show anyway.

I'm thinking seriously of buying some Jan08 125 NYX calls, but I have to scrape together the capital yet.

Oh, and I'm loving KRY, it got beat up last week and now its back where it was, on no news.

by **Nate** » May 18 2007 07:47:02 pm

http://www.thestreet.com/_htmlbooyah/un ... 57802.html

thats a brief article you might want to add to the first post Talenos in case anyone who's never traded before bumbles into this thread, but that's doubtful.

by **Nate** » May 21 2007 12:38:48 pm

The S & P broke through the record high set back in 2000 today.

by **Nate** » May 24 2007 12:52:22 pm

wow, i'm getting pounded on NYX. this hurts.

by **Nate** » May 25 2007 08:48:06 am

NYX got upgraded at GS today to neutral

by **Nate** » May 30 2007 03:21:41 pm

Finally a good day for NYX, rallying into a close. I'm doing a little reading about technical analysis and what I learned last night made it look like today would be bullish for NYX and now I guess I have a little more faith in it. I think it looks good for tomorrow too, but maybe this was just because the industrials did well today.

by **Talenos** » May 30 2007 10:47:41 pm

Man, Apple just will not go down

I'm going to sell some of my position tomorrow, and then forget about buying anymore for a little while.

by **Nate** » May 31 2007 09:00:55 pm

Buy more NYX

Someone is selling the shit out of it, I sure hope they are about out of shares.

Here's a couple for you guys to check out:
MVIS- large short position, some expect it to be a 10-15+ stock by the end of the year.
WYDY- Small energy drink company. Its an OTC, but the beverage sector has been raging lately, can this one be next?

by **Nate** » Jun 06 2007 07:27:03 pm

Today kinda sucked.

If anyone is interested, thestreet.com was offering a 24 hour subscription to realmoney for free. I think the offer is still good. I don't think I'd pay money for it, but there are some interesting articles there.

by **Nate** » Jun 06 2007 07:39:10 pm

oh sweet, NYX announced a $1/share dividend payable on July 13th and quarterly after that.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4868190.html

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 06 2007 08:54:51 pm

that almost makes up for the constant sucker punches it's given you, eh?

by **Nate** » Jun 06 2007 09:20:17 pm

Almost. I wish I could day trade, its been a dream stock for that the past few days, if you can call the trends right. I'm only down 13% in it.

Looks like another buying opportunity in LVLT too.

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 06 2007 09:26:54 pm

i dumped NYX and bought AMZN. go me.

by **Talenos** » Jun 06 2007 09:55:52 pm

I sold about half my apple. Not down much in NYX, not enough to worry at least. PCU has treated me pretty well lately. Got in at 68 now it's in the 90 area.

by **Nate** » Jun 07 2007 04:07:42 pm

I'm going to start punching myself in the nuts so NYX can stop.

MVIS was up 3% today. I bought 5 Dec 5 calls yesterday so I'm hoping we see 10-15 by then either on a buyout or someone picking up their product. I mean, who doesn't want to project pron on their walls with their cell phone?

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 07 2007 04:41:15 pm

some people are saying MVIS will have a deal announced within the month. i'm already up over 20% in it. a rise to 10+ would be welcome indeed.

by **Nate** » Jun 07 2007 10:24:13 pm

I could sure use a win, even if I'll probably just throw the reward at NYX and watch it go down more. I wish I had enough to start writing covered calls, but as soon as I did that the stock would go up and I'd have to sell it.

by **Nate** » Jun 11 2007 10:27:50 pm

Journey-Who's crying now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk47RTBs4Hc

Official song for anyone who stays short MVIS much longer.

by **Nate** » Jun 12 2007 08:58:43 am

MVIS was added to the Russel micro-cap index.

by **Nate** » Jun 13 2007 08:25:28 pm

Thestreet.com is starting another stock picking game, or maybe it started already. Anyway, I'm going to pick MVIS and LVLT as two too start with right away. I need to find another 2 so I have 4. I'm going to try to keep fewer positions this time. I gave up last time when I had only made 100k and there were people above 1 mil already. I suppose the same will happen this time around.

I need to find a good biotech thats about to explode.

by **Nate** » Jun 14 2007 09:29:39 am

http://dailyspeculator.blogspot.com/200 ... 7-asm.html

Theres a blog from a guy who went to the MVIS shareholder meeting. With some vids.

by **Talenos** » Jun 14 2007 10:50:20 pm

Why are you all of a sudden the MVIS cheerleader?

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 15 2007 12:51:41 am

he's pumping and dumping, clearly.

by **Nate** » Jun 15 2007 09:06:42 am

lol I wish I had that much power.

PS wtf monsanto. so much for waiting for that stock to pullback to buy more.

by **Nate** » Jun 18 2007 08:00:48 pm

I've got sharebuilder setup to buy more NYX tomorrow so I hope it doesn't gap up at the open. I'm only down 18% in it.

I'm also going to get more MVIS calls if they come down in price a little more.

by **Nate** » Jun 19 2007 11:22:56 am

Sharebuilder managed to buy my shares at the high of the day. I should find a new brokerage firm.

After doing the math, I guess it was only 1/3 of a share difference.

by **DJSteve** » Jun 19 2007 12:25:33 pm

Is there any good software out there (or even pre-existing excel templates) for tracking return on an annualized basis--in particular taking dividends into account? I have all my investments set up as a portfolio in Yahoo Finance and it's nice to see what percentage I'm up or down, but it seems like return over time would be somewhat more meaningful... and a PITA to calculate by hand.

by **Nate** » Jun 20 2007 08:55:01 am

Piper Jaffray Upgrades NYSE Euronext (NYX) to Market Perform
06-20-2007 07:59:16 AM

Piper Jaffray & Co. upgrades NYSE Euronext (NYSE: NYX) from Underperform to Market Perform with a $76 price target. The firm said, "We have been negative on NYX shares for several months due primarily to valuation, given challenges NYX has faced and continues to face in its core market cash equities. However, following the completion of the merger with Euronext (and the ensuing diversification of revenues), coupled with a more attractive valuation, we view the risk/reward metrics as relatively balanced, and now rate shares Market Perform." The firm also notes that the exchange faces headwinds in the futrue in respect to the exchange\'s earnings growth and market share.

Well, I wonder if this one will have any effect on the stock. Their target price is $2 below where the stock is trading now. . . .

Also, for those who called me a MVIS cheerleader, here is an article from the short side: http://smallcap.seekingalpha.com/article/38858

by **Nate** » Jun 20 2007 10:10:02 am

DJSteve wrote:Is there any good software out there (or even pre-existing excel templates) for tracking return on an annualized basis--in particular taking dividends into account? I have all my investments set up as a portfolio in Yahoo Finance and it's nice to see what percentage I'm up or down, but it seems like return over time would be somewhat more meaningful... and a PITA to calculate by hand.

I use google, and since all my dividends are reinvested, I just add the additional partial shares as if they didn't cost anything, so my market value goes up but my cost basis doesn't.

Is that what you meant?

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 27 2007 12:06:20 pm

so how bout that MVIS, Nate? *sigh*

by **Nate** » Jun 27 2007 10:03:12 pm

Pressure from warrants? I'm upto 10 calls now, and when I looked yesterday they were trading at about where I bought them. I probably should have bought common stock, but we'll see what happens.

Do you read Fly on Wall St's blog? He's bullish as shit on it yet. I only read his blog because of his asshole attitude.

Oh, and color me unconvinced on the NYX rally today. Though I would like to buy more here if I had money. I think they'd really have to botch things to push it much lower than 70. Maybe if they buy 3 exchanges at once or something.

by **floor punching mummy** » Jun 27 2007 11:20:46 pm

yeah, I read the fly. that's who turned me onto it in the first place.

by **Nate** » Jun 28 2007 08:43:06 am

I would like to give CNBC for giving monsanto absolutly no coverage when they did all their analyst upgrades and earning reports this morning even though Monsanto yet again beat earnings and increased profits.

by **Nate** » Jul 06 2007 09:03:02 pm

Well, today looked a little better. Maybe NYX will finally wipe its ass and move on, but probably not for another month at least. It did make my overall portfolio look slightly better.

I sold my HAL today, I barely owned any and I was up decent enough in it. I'll probably use the money to buy more NYX.

I also put a limit order on half of my MVIS Dec 05 Calls @ 1.85. I don't know if they'll get that high, but if they do that will cover my initial investment and leave the rest on the table to let me either watch run up or run to 0. I'm kinda stupid and greedy, so they'll probably end closer to 0.

by **floor punching mummy** » Jul 07 2007 02:49:26 am

psh. MVIS is going up.

by **Nate** » Jul 07 2007 08:31:37 am

I know it is, but by December? Looking at this option calculator, the stock price has to hit about 6.10-6.20 to get the option price that high.

by **Deepblue** » Jul 15 2007 10:07:03 pm

so my bonus check comes in tomorrow for 2 grand. what should i do with it?

by **Fuzzy** » Jul 15 2007 10:18:49 pm

I got a hot tip on some magic beans.

by **Talenos** » Jul 16 2007 12:00:35 am

What's your goals, you want to have fun with it or put it towards retirement or not?

by **Deepblue** » Jul 16 2007 12:32:41 am

Well, I already have money going towards retirement. I have three mutual funds (my Roth IRA) I put money into every month reinvesting the dividends back into themselves:

ING DIRECT BALANCED CLASS O
ING DIRECT GLOBAL EQUITY DIVIDEND CLASS O
ING DIRECT INDEX PLUS SMALLCAP FUND CLASS O

What exactly entails "fun"? Risks, or flat out profit? A friend here was trying to convince me the other night that I should invest in a Chinese energy company and become a millionaire in a matter of years....

by **Talenos** » Jul 16 2007 01:15:15 am

Well flat out profit entails risk. If you want stocks to invest in you should do a little research before you decide to throw money at them even if you are going to speculate. Especially with China, you probably don't want to throw all the 2k at it, you could start a decent fun money account with that though. And by that I mean stocks that you will choose to follow because you think they will end up doing better for you than the regular market.

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