Video Games General

[Reagraham Lincool]

I've been burning through Doom 3 the last couple days. Sweet Zombie Jesus this game takes a lot of cheap shots.

Wasn't the whole game just designed as an engine demo?

[Gretyl]

hoo boy, HTML5 is a damn far sight away from Kongregate, I tells ye whut:
http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/

[MarcusAurelius]

I've been burning through Doom 3 the last couple days. Sweet Zombie Jesus this game takes a lot of cheap shots.

I bought that for Xbox and the only thing I remember about it was if there is a dark spot anywhere on the map, expect something to pop out of it. What a terrible game.

no kidding. it was so bad i remember pre-firing dark corners and getting a kill basically every time. that game's anticipation to quality ratio is through the roof.

[Gretyl]

Since Ebert's blog post, there has been an eruption of debate on the internets arguing over whether video games are art. This may be the second-least interesting argument out there.

And this is all that needs to be said about that.

start the countdown to some retard crosslinking PA...

[Reagraham Lincool]

Since Ebert's blog post, there has been an eruption of debate on the internets arguing over whether video games are art. This may be the second-least interesting argument out there.

And this is all that needs to be said about that.

start the countdown to some retard crosslinking PA...

I think the argument is interesting.

[Tom the Cat]

i agree, though i can identify with those who may be getting tired of the same old arguments

[Gretyl]

If anyone wants to establish the grounds for an actual discussion*, I'd probably contribute.

* I don't see Ebert's argument as a reasonable starting point.

[Gretyl]

Awesome exegesis of MGS4 over here:
http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS4/index.htm

[Talenos]

If anyone wants to establish the grounds for an actual discussion*, I'd probably contribute.

* I don't see Ebert's argument as a reasonable starting point.

Ebert really knows films and can do a great analysis on a film, but I doubt his experience studying and experiencing games.

[Warlock]

Ebert's argument consisted of "I don't think things I dislike and know nothing about are art" and that was pretty much it.

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

[MarcusAurelius]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

[Nate]

Purchased Episodes tonight, and while I was at it I grabbed UT3 and Orange Box. Looking forward to Orange Box - HL1 was the last HalfLife thing I played (besides uncountable hours of CS) and HL1 is easily in my top 5 games ever.

Orange Box is great.

[Cody]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

What about stuff like Brütal Legend? Pretty sure that was pretty much the whole vision of Tim Schafer.

[MarcusAurelius]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

What about stuff like Brütal Legend? Pretty sure that was pretty much the whole vision of Tim Schafer.

to be honest, i only played the first 30 minutes or so and got bored, and thought it seemed still very ordinary. i certainly don't have the full experience so i can't say unequivocally that it sucks.

[Warlock]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

Video games have directors....

[Cody]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

What about stuff like Brütal Legend? Pretty sure that was pretty much the whole vision of Tim Schafer.

to be honest, i only played the first 30 minutes or so and got bored, and thought it seemed still very ordinary. i certainly don't have the full experience so i can't say unequivocally that it sucks.

I don't think it was advertised truthfully. To have seen the trailer, you'd expect just balls to the wall dark-ass metal shit, and that's true, but then it starts to break down when you actually have to play it. I thought it was pretty awesome, but I could see how people might be turned off by the gameplay.

[MarcusAurelius]

I did enjoy the fact that he tried to make an argument for art being the work of a sole individual, yet he's a film critic that defends movies as art.....

to be fair, in a film, you have one guy who oversees EVERYTHING, the director. that one guy has to approve the final cut. obviously this isn't true in your typical shitty film, but throughout the best films of history, it's been true.

shitty big budget hollywood films, and your big budget video games... there's rarely any real vision because the people with the money are responsible for everything.

Video games have directors....

they also get rushed out the door half-finished because of publisher demands (to a greater degree than movies i'd say)

[Tom the Cat]

JESUS CHRIST, YES

[Gretyl]

The first console to fully resurrect the promise of the Dreamcast definitely wins the internet.

[Tom the Cat]

I hadn't been playing much in the way of video games lately, but the demo for Blur has sucked me right back in. Has everyone else played this? The game itself is like Project Gotham or somesuch flashy, semi-realistic racer combined with the powerup mechanics of Mario Kart. It's pretty fun.

The real star of the show, though, is the demo itself. I've sank easily 3 or 4 hours into it and still haven't hit the level cap. Granted, only a handful of tracks are available, but it's an amazing example of what a demo can and should be. I'm not much of a racing game fan, and though I might have played the demo just for fun, if it had only given me three set races against the computer or a playtime limit of 10 minutes or something, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But with the ability to play multiplayer online with friends as well as the typical XBL slugs for as long as I want (with the understanding that at level 15 I'll stop gaining progress until I buy the game)... well, at this point I'm very seriously considering picking up the game when I have some spare cash to throw around.

Anyway, highly recommended demo if you haven't tried it already.

[Crump's Brother]

I played a bit of the beta, but I haven't touched the demo. I didn't even know a demo had been released for wide consumption. I'll be getting that tonight. For the hour or so that I was playing the beta I had an absolute blast. It's a fucking awesome version of Mario Kart with no retarded rubber band bullshit. Just the fact that I could see what the items were as I approached them made for a sweet strategic race.

[Gretyl]

What the shit? It also has whistle controls:

[Tom the Cat]

I played a bit of the beta, but I haven't touched the demo. I didn't even know a demo had been released for wide consumption. I'll be getting that tonight. For the hour or so that I was playing the beta I had an absolute blast. It's a fucking awesome version of Mario Kart with no retarded rubber band bullshit. Just the fact that I could see what the items were as I approached them made for a sweet strategic race.

The multiplayer beta is the "demo" I'm talking about. I guess I didn't consider it a beta anymore since the game has already released (hasn't it?)

[Gretyl]

Blur's release date is May 25th, according to Amazon.

[Tom the Cat]

d'erp!

[Crump's Brother]

Wikipedia says May 25th. I was under the impression the beta wasn't for wide release (only available to certain people) so when I saw you said "demo" in your post I assumed they changed that. Plus when I played it the level cap was really low and there were maybe a couple hundred people online in the whole game. In short, I'm about to go home and clear up this whole mess. If I can download it then it's a demo. If I can't download it then it's still the beta.

[Tom the Cat]

You'll be able to download; the level cap is 15, and there are thousands of people playing every time I log on.

[Toilet of Sadness]

That's different than the beta, which was capped at 10.

[nippletwister]

I was thinking about demos lately.

Actually, I was thinking about my video game habits from high school through college. A lot of what I spent time on was demos and shareware versions of things, and the small handfull of games my friends and I would spend money on and then play until they got all worn and frayed.

Which is in stark contrast to my current trend of playing everything one quick time through because I have a whole stack of games to get through.

[Cody]

how many games do you own that you've never played?

maybe that should have its own thread.

[Cody]

I have 3 that I can think of off the top of my head that I want to get around to soon. Then probably another dozen that I played a little but never finished, and want to go back to eventually.

[nippletwister]

Yeah. Maybe it's just me, but when I was a kid, I could spend HOURS AND HOURS playing the same games - learning them in every intimate detail, learning hilarious exploits, building custom maps, etc.

[Crump's Brother]

Has anyone else played Mega Man 10? I grabbed it for the 360 and I'm really getting upset playing this game. The controls are fucking terrible. For example, if I jump or shoot there's about a quarter second delay or so. If I try to run there's about a quarter second delay. However, If I turn around Mega Man will turn around instantly, but he doesn't start moving for around a quarter second. The TV is in "game mode" and none of my other 360 games suffer from this kind of input lag. So as far as I can tell the delay is all in-game. It makes the whole game damn near unplayable for me.

[Crump's Brother]

I have a list of games I've played but never beat and I'm generally fine with that. I also have a mental list of games that I want to play in the future but don't currently own. I don't have any games that I own and haven't played though (not counting the 360 pack-in game). These days the separation between a play once and a play constantly game all comes down to multiplayer. Back in the day it was more about time management. I played the hell out of single player games because I wasn't allowed to buy a new game just because I beat the one I already owned. With the purchasing limit out of the equation playing a linear timesink more than once seems pointless.

[Tom the Cat]

Has anyone else played Mega Man 10? I grabbed it for the 360 and I'm really getting upset playing this game. The controls are fucking terrible. For example, if I jump or shoot there's about a quarter second delay or so. If I try to run there's about a quarter second delay. However, If I turn around Mega Man will turn around instantly, but he doesn't start moving for around a quarter second. The TV is in "game mode" and none of my other 360 games suffer from this kind of input lag. So as far as I can tell the delay is all in-game. It makes the whole game damn near unplayable for me.

I got the demo, and just like my attempts to play Mega Man when I was a child, I was destroyed long before I ever made it to the boss. I'm not paying money for a game that just kicks me in the junk over and over.

[Tom the Cat]

Ditto on the games list. I guess I have several Steam titles I've impulse-bought but never gotten around to playing (at least not for more than 5 minutes). I also bought Saint's Row 2 and have played a couple hours of multiplayer, but have never played the single-player campaign at all.

For the most part, I think I'm getting better at resisting the impulse to purchase games I'm just going to blow through. I'm on my third playthrough of Batman and am loving it every bit as much as the second time. Maybe not the first, but that's a hard act to follow.

[Crump's Brother]

Has anyone else played Mega Man 10? I grabbed it for the 360 and I'm really getting upset playing this game. The controls are fucking terrible. For example, if I jump or shoot there's about a quarter second delay or so. If I try to run there's about a quarter second delay. However, If I turn around Mega Man will turn around instantly, but he doesn't start moving for around a quarter second. The TV is in "game mode" and none of my other 360 games suffer from this kind of input lag. So as far as I can tell the delay is all in-game. It makes the whole game damn near unplayable for me.

I got the demo, and just like my attempts to play Mega Man when I was a child, I was destroyed long before I ever made it to the boss. I'm not paying money for a game that just kicks me in the junk over and over.

What makes this a real kick in the junk is that I loved MM9. I bought that one on my Wii and I'm wondering if MM10 doesn't suffer the same control issues on the Wii version. I'm not going to drop 15 bucks to find out though.

[Crump's Brother]

For the most part, I think I'm getting better at resisting the impulse to purchase games I'm just going to blow through. I'm on my third playthrough of Batman and am loving it every bit as much as the second time. Maybe not the first, but that's a hard act to follow.

Are you doing anything different on the subsequent playthroughs?

[MarcusAurelius]

Yeah. Maybe it's just me, but when I was a kid, I could spend HOURS AND HOURS playing the same games - learning them in every intimate detail, learning hilarious exploits, building custom maps, etc.

older games had more actual complexity and interest. that's all but been replaced by shiny graphics and simplified gameplay.

[Tom the Cat]

For the most part, I think I'm getting better at resisting the impulse to purchase games I'm just going to blow through. I'm on my third playthrough of Batman and am loving it every bit as much as the second time. Maybe not the first, but that's a hard act to follow.

Are you doing anything different on the subsequent playthroughs?

Not especially, I just enjoy every component of that game thoroughly. I hadn't touched it for like 6 months and decided to download the DLC that came out shortly after I lent the game to a friend last year. The DLC wasn't anything special, but put me back in the mood to play through the game again.

[G.O.A.T.]

Yeah. Maybe it's just me, but when I was a kid, I could spend HOURS AND HOURS playing the same games - learning them in every intimate detail, learning hilarious exploits, building custom maps, etc.

older games had more actual complexity and interest. that's all but been replaced by shiny graphics and simplified gameplay.

Welcome to adulthood. The priority for video games goes tumbling down when work, family, school and looking after yourself/property eats up all your time.

More to MA's point, the jump into 3-d gaming significantly impacted depth and quality of games. Instead of focusing resources on developing and fleshing out gameplay/level design, developers have to waste resources debugging cameras, clipping, hit detection, realistic movement, realistic models, lag, loading and many other issues made far more complex by a third dimension.

Plus a lot of the "bonuses" that were normally included in games back in the day as unlockables or hidden content is being sold as DLC after the fact (thus no need to explore every nook and cranny when I just pay $3 to unlock that new suit/level). Can you imagine how fun Mario 3 would be if you were able to purchase or download (via exclusive Gamestop/Amazon/Best Buy pre-order) a power up pack available for use at world 1-1?

Call it nostalgia, but I'm still just as happy playing Mario 2 or Contra on NES as I am the latest and greatest.

[G.O.A.T.]

I'm going to make an awesome crotchety old man some day.

[nippletwister]

crotchety old man swearing at contra

[nippletwister]

Plus a lot of the "bonuses" that were normally included in games back in the day as unlockables or hidden content is being sold as DLC after the fact (thus no need to explore every nook and cranny when I just pay $3 to unlock that new suit/level).

This does piss me off. The model for retail game packaging is all fucked up now. They'll sell you an unfinished game and then release patch after patch fixing mistakes. They'll sell you "DLC" packs full of shit that should have gone into the original game but for their ability to make extra money.

But I do disagree that games are getting simpler. I mean, they are, but they aren't. Just like with modern music, there is a lot of great stuff if you avoid the mainstream and wait for the crap to get sifted out.

[MarcusAurelius]

More to MA's point, the jump into 3-d gaming significantly impacted depth and quality of games. Instead of focusing resources on developing and fleshing out gameplay/level design, developers have to waste resources debugging cameras, clipping, hit detection, realistic movement, realistic models, lag, loading and many other issues made far more complex by a third dimension.

i wouldn't entirely agree. developers can purchase great game engines and focus just on making content. increasing amounts of effort go into graphical areas just because that's the trend, and the increasingly retarded game-buying public demands it. discerning gamers are in an extreme minority, which clearly wasn't the case even 5 years ago. i'm sure talenos could weigh in better on this, but i'm pretty sure the ratio of graphical designers to actual gameplay designers has skyrocketed. hell, look at the ridiculous success of cod4/6. those are simply atrocious video games, and sold better than most hollywood blockbusters.

Call it nostalgia, but I'm still just as happy playing Mario 2 or Contra on NES as I am the latest and greatest.

i used to think it was just nostalgia, but now i'm sure it's not. there's been a handful of newish games that felt as good or better than any game i ever played in my youth (e.g., i'd list ninja gaiden and fallout3 in my top 5 games). it's just much more rare in a world of shitty sequels.

[MarcusAurelius]

This does piss me off. The model for retail game packaging is all fucked up now. They'll sell you an unfinished game and then release patch after patch fixing mistakes.

for sure. i only recently started playing steam games (tf2 was my first purchase), and holy shit am i impressed with their support. i paid $30 for TF2 when it was released what, 2 years ago? and there's still constant content additions and patches. L4D2 just got a new set of levels, and new bad guys. every other company would either not patch the game at all, or charge for patches and those new levels. valve made a lifetime buyer out of me.

[Talenos]

How's those L4D patches coming along?

[MarcusAurelius]

How's those L4D patches coming along?

I'd say pretty good. Last patch was Feb 24, 2010, 1.5 years since release. Helluva lot better "long-term" support than any EA game. And there's no real outstanding problems with the game that warrant patching.

compare that to a game that sold a lot more, call of duty 4, which got it's final patch 6 months after release (and was still very buggy, and didn't contain the fixes generally asked for). cod:mw2 was released 6 months ago, and activision is still asking for $60 for the PC release and $15 for the DLC. 2 minor patches have been released (last one in january).

team fortress 2 came out in 2007, and it's had a dozen (free) updates in 2010 alone.

[Gretyl]

bumpity reboot time!

[MarcusAurelius]

lost db summary: talenos is a corporate shill

[Gretyl]

Oh shit, we lost that Used Games thread too

[nippletwister]

Yeah, I'm bummed about that.

[MarcusAurelius]

meh, nothing in there that wasn't easily explained by an introductory economics class on the valuation behavior of consumers.

[Cody]

Oh shit, we lost that Used Games thread too

oh man that thread was awful city bros.